August 29, 2010

HOW BOOKRIFF.COM USES BLOGS TO REACH CUSTOMERS

Announcer: You're listening to "The New Reality."

Rochelle: Thank you.

Flavio: Rochelle, perhaps you can tell us a little bit about yourself and about what BookRiff.com is.

Rochelle: Sure. BookRiff.com is a new technology focusing on the publishing industry. We're allowing consumers to remix and resell content, whether it is published content, web content, or their own content. Most importantly, we're making sure that all the content owners get paid for the content. Think of it as literary mixed tapes, but the artists all get paid. We're creating the technology platform. We'll be launching this fall in the education, travel, and do-it-yourself markets. In terms of my background, I've been doing web technology or digital media, I guess we call it now, for probably over ten years. I started a startup in Silicon Valley during the first dot com boom. I have been involved in technology, mobile, film, and television, as well as media on the web for many, many years. Online advertising is key to finding audiences. So I use online media quite a bit to find my audience, extend my audience, and do things along those lines.

Flavio: Great. So, you are actually a veteran when it comes to web media. Ten years ago, I guess if you said to somebody that you are doing online advertising, they probably looked at you like, "What the heck are you talking about?"

Rochelle: Absolutely. My first company was a blogging software company when they called it weblogs.

Flavio: Wow.

Rochelle: So, that gives you a sense of how long I've been in this business.

Flavio: I remember those days. They seem like they were a lifetime ago, and it was only a short ten years ago.

Rochelle: Indeed.

Flavio: Raspberry Kids – Vancouver Based Start-Up

Flavio: Thank you, Rochelle. Our next guest is Sue Sinclair. She is the founder and Chief Executive Mom at Raspberry Kids. Welcome to the show, Sue.

Sue: Thanks. Raspberry Kids is an online lifestyle store. We feature fresh, healthy, and fun products for the little ones in your life as well as some products for moms and families as well. We tend to cater to savvy expecting parents, moms, dads, and gift-givers. We feature a wide range of toys, feeding products, books, and giftables. All of the shopping can be done online at RaspberryKids.com. The great thing about this business is it combines my passion for sales and service as well as technology. I also really enjoy sourcing high quality children's products and bringing them to the Canadian market.

Flavio: Wonderful. And you've been around in business for some time now?

Sue: We launched in November of 2008, so we are coming up on two years.

Flavio: November 2008. Right at the height of the exciting crisis that the world has experienced.

Sue: The economic global meltdown . . .

Flavio:That's right. Yeah.

Sue: . . . was when we launched, yes.

Flavio:I guess that worked out good for you. I guess you saw an opportunity coming up. You jumped on it and took it.

Sue: As Rochelle mentioned, things could only go up from there.

Flavio:That's right.

Sue: So we definitely tried to use that to our advantage.

Flavio:Wonderful. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming in.

Sue: Thanks, Web Designer.

Flavio: How MogoMoney Uses Social Media Media

Flavio:Our third guest is Phillip Postrehovsky. Did I pronounce that right?

Phillip: That's correct, yes.

Flavio:I guess that's not Cuban or Mexican is it?

Phillip: It's Polish.

Flavio:It's Polish, of course. I'm from Mexico, so. Phillip is the Online Community Manager for Mogo Money. He is also a social media advisor for the Children's Hospital. Welcome to the show, Phillip.

Phillip: Thank you. Yeah, so, Mogo Money or Mogo Financial is our official name, but our website is MogoMoney.com. We are Canada's number one short-term lender. We position ourselves as an alternative to payday loans. Mogo has been around since 2006. When it comes to BC Children's Hospital, I am heavily involved from a philanthropy side and advising the Foundation on their social media strategies. They have kind of become a leader in that space. It has been a lot of exciting things, and obviously for a great cause.

Flavio: Wonderful. Thank you very much for joining us on the show today. Today, we want to take this opportunity to ask our three guests a series of questions to see really what kind of strategies they have used online when it comes to website advertising, social media, paid advertisement, and so on. Really what their involvement is and more than anything what type of results have they had and the success that they have had. The first question that I would like to ask our guests is what opportunities have come for you from web media and how has all of this advertising helped your business?

Sue: I think that, from Raspberry Kids' perspective, online advertising has opened up a lot of doors. We've been able to secure editorial opportunities or different relationships with various media. We've done blogger outreach. We've sourced new products, as well as had opportunities for sales. Then there is also the ability to engage and find out information from our end consumers as to what they are interested in and what they want us to bring onboard, what they like and what they don't like. So it's been really helpful from a market research perspective.

Flavio: Wonderful. What is one key thing that you have done in regards to the online advertising that you think has actually brought you the most results or that you can actually say that it has worked out really well for you?

Sue: I honestly can't say that it is any one thing because I really, truly believe it is a combination of a lot of different elements. We reach different people in different ways. I think it is understanding which are the best ways that work for your individual organization. For example, we may have people that subscribe to our newsletter but are not "liking" us on Facebook or are not fans of us on Facebook. We continue to use a variety of different methods to reach them, understanding that everybody wants to be communicated to in a different way.

Flavio:So, you have custom-tailored your communications and web media strategy depending on your audience that you have.

Sue: That's correct.

Flavio:Wonderful. Anybody else? Phillip?

Phillip: Well, I just wanted to add that at Mogo our primary business is online. We have a lot of our competitors doing paid search. You name it, they're doing it. We're doing it as well. One thing that we have decided to do to separate ourselves or kind of stand out is we've decided to own Facebook. If you go to our Facebook page, what we are doing on there no one is even close to touching what we are doing. We have spent about two years building up our online savings community. It has been a great success for us from so many perspectives. Just building transparency for the brand and building an online community not directly related to borrowing money, because who wants to talk about borrowing money all the time. We've built an online community where people can go online and save money. They get savings tips. We've built this community, and it has given a new reason for our customers to engage with our brand even when they may not need our services.

Flavio: So, you've actually been able to really take advantage of the social media to really try to monetize and convey a message about your company without saying, like you said, "Borrow money."

Phillip: Exactly. For us, Facebook has been key not just for customer retention but also lead generation and just more cost effective brand awareness building.

Flavio:Great. Thank you.

Rochelle: From my perspective, I'd just like to add a little different, we're launching our company. We're a startup. We've found that online advertising and social media has been great in identifying partners. Also, in identifying in what markets we want to hit because we can then see what people are talking about. We use web media to talk about what we're launching, what we're doing, and as a result of that we've actually finalized some significant partnerships that would have been much more difficult to finalize if you'd just done cold calling or trying to find them. Online advertising is not always about just selling product, but sometimes it is about figuring out what product to actually offer. You can use it, I think to echo Sue's point, as a market research tool, but also as a way to connect with your audience before you may even have a product to sell them.

Flavio: The main thing about that is the immediate feedback and response you get from your visitors or your audience that you are engaging. Traditionally, prior to ten years ago, it was pretty much impossible to do any of these things. It is amazing now that, with the social media tools and all the different things that anybody can do, you can actually get this immediate feedback and react based on that customer feedback.

Rochelle: Absolutely.

Sue: I think that's a great point, Rochelle, because before we launched Raspberry Kids we had started collecting email addresses and building up our database so that when we did launch, we actually had somebody to tell about it and spread the news. So that was helpful for us.

Flavio:Now, are you all directly involved with your web media strategy? Do you do it directly, or do you actually delegate that to other people?

Rochelle: Currently, I am doing most of it on the startup. Previously, I was the head of a digital media agency and we farmed that out to a variety of different people. So I've been on both sides where I have worked with agents and agencies, but I have also done it myself. I would say I've done both. Usually, when you get to a larger size or you have multiple campaigns going on, sometimes it is easier to engage other agencies who are specialists and who really understand those channels. But initially, I always recommend that it is good to try it yourself so that you really understand how to use the tools, because at the end of the day, you have to be the one who determines whether that campaign has been successful and how valuable it is to your objectives and your goals.

Flavio:Right. How about you?

Sue: Well, in the case of Raspberry Kids because I am engaging with moms and I am a mom, it's been important for me to be able to share my experiences as a mom. It's a very blurred line between my personal life and my business life because they are very intertwined. I've played a very large role in all of our web media and most recently brought on a part-time employee who has also assisted. I can certainly see in the future some of that being delegated, but transparency in character and brand is really critical for what we do. So it is something that I would always keep my hand in the pie.

Flavio: Right. Now, with you Phillip, I guess a little bit different with you because you are working with a fairly large organization like Mogo Money, especially the Children's Hospital Foundation. Do you have a team of people that you work with in regards to online advertising?

Phillip: At Mogo, we've actually built up our web media team to five people. What we did is we actually brought some of what we would consider core competencies, like PPC advertising, in-house. Originally we had it outsourced to an agency, but we brought that in-house. Most of our business advertising planning and execution is done in-house, but there are some things that we still outsource. As I mentioned, we have built up our team from just one or two to a team of five now.

Flavio: Great. We need to take a quick break right now. When we come back, we are going to be asking our experts a few more questions. We're going to be talking about different ideas and content, things that you have done that have actually worked for you. Stay tuned. We're going to be right back after this break. You're listening to "The New Reality" brought to you by Snaptech - a web design company.

USING SEO TO REACH CUSTOMERS

Before the break, we were asking a few questions in regards to web media and what opportunities have come from their web media and how has it helped advertise their business. I just want to continue that conversation in regards to what Internet advertising has done for you. An important question, I guess, that we were discussing is how Internet advertising pretty much has leveled the playing field for smaller companies to actually compete with the bigger companies. Perhaps, Sue, you can tell us a little bit about your experience with that.

Sue: I think one of the things that social media allows you to do is not just talk but also listen. You can listen to what's going on in the industry, what's going on with trends, what's going on with the customers, what's going on with your various suppliers, and then be able to take action accordingly. You can also listen to any feedback that you are getting with respect to your brand, your service, your website and then proactively deal with any issues that you may have, both positive and not so positive.

Flavio:Great. Phillip, let me ask you a little bit about this because that applies to you. I like to think that when Mogo Money started, I can imagine that it must have been a little bit of a tough climb because you probably had some traditional brick and mortar businesses that had been in that industry for quite some time. How did Internet advertising help you as far as leveling the playing field when it comes to reaching out to new customers?

Phillip: Well, we still have 11 stores at Mogo. But obviously, when we first started, there was no online business. That was introduced after. Really, it has allowed us to grow more rapidly. Obviously, there are no stores to build when you are online. It has allowed us to grow quicker and also allowed us to test new products and experiment with a lot less risk, because we can pause, we can start new things. It has allowed us to be more flexible in our product development and also grow in a more aggressive manner and not worry about overhead costs.

Flavio: Great. Anything you'd like to add to that, Rochelle?

Rochelle: I think what we are seeing in the social media space is the ability to iterate much more quickly and to get feedback. I think the product iterations/feedback loop has gotten a lot shorter. Anyone can go out there, throw out an idea, and then get information back very quickly. That is wonderful for small businesses that are very agile and very flexible. That's why it really is leveling the playing field, because they can do that in a lot of ways much more quickly than large organizations can.

Flavio:Thank you, Rochelle. Let me ask you something because we've been discussing a lot about social media right now. Definitely this is the big thing right now that everyone is discussing and talking about. But there are other traditional types of Internet advertising, such as the traditional, organic SEO, which is the natural way that search engines find your website in Vancouver and position you and so on. We have pay per click. We have traditional advertising. Aside from social media, have you had any experience with one of those things that has actually worked for you, or do you see an area where you can actually improve with any of those things?

Flavio: I think that SEO is incredibly important, although I think it depends on the kind of purchase and the kind of activity and services that you as a company have to offer. For some things, people are going to go to Google and they are going to want to find you on the first page. They'll click through and do that. Other purchases are much more personal and people will ask their friends and their contacts, "Who can you recommend?" So, I think there really are different kinds of purchases, and you have to be clear as to what you are offering. Ideally, you should be in both. But I think that if you prioritize as to which one is more important or more critical to your product line, I don't think it is possible to be great at both as a small business owner initially. So you have to figure out which channel works best for you.

SEO I find works incredibly well for what I would consider commodity items or commodity services where people are just looking for who is out there, who is offering this, maybe they are looking for the cheapest price. Those kinds of products and services will do well on Google, and being up there in the top ten makes a big difference in terms of the volume that you can actually have coming to your website. To do that, you have to make sure that your website has the right words and terms. SEO is still very important. Ideally, it should also be tied into everything else that you are doing. I don't think that they are separate in any way, shape, or form. Online advertising is, I would say, a toolbox of a variety of different channels. SEO and social media are just two of them.

Sue: Well, with respect to Raspberry Kids, we haven't really had an SEO budget. I definitely see that as being its own beast that needs to be tamed by a professional. There are only so many hours in the day. So the approach we've taken is to try to build the business a little bit more organically through the "word of mom" and making sure that the customer experience for them is a great one so that they go ahead and spread that message, whether it be on Twitter, Facebook. We engage a lot with various different forms of niche publications or media that speak directly to our marketplace. The majority of those are online because, of course, if the media is online, we're a click away from our website where we can then introduce people to the products and services that we have.

Flavio: How does this help Mogo Money? Organic SEO, as Rochelle mentioned, it is when you are searching for more commodity items and so on. How has that helped Mogo Money?

Phillip: Well, when it comes to SEO, we are in a highly competitive keyword industry to the point that it can take years to get onto page one. We've tackled SEO. We started tackling it really in a serious way probably a year ago. We made it onto page three. We are on our way hopefully to page one. We've done the analysis and there is a lot of revenue to be made and saved if you are on page one of Google for some of the keywords in our industry. Some of the strategies that we've done are a lot of on-page work. We've also found that our social media strategy has helped a lot. We're publishing content on our blog daily. That's helped as well. SEO for us is something that, again, is more of a long-term strategy, but we know that there is a big payoff. In the short term, paid search has been actually one of our key lead drivers.

Flavio:definitely want to talk a little bit about paid search. Before we get into that, I just want to pick your brains a little bit about SEO for Vancouver, because I am assuming you are doing this in-house. Correct?

Phillip: We were originally doing it . . . we had some companies doing it, but we've brought it all in-house now.

Flavio: So what can you tell our listeners that have had experience with SEO companies that promise them they will put them on page one within 30 days? Then, obviously, three months go by, six months go by, and as you mentioned, they're nowhere to be found. What can you tell our listeners about that?

Flavio: SEO is one of those industries that I would say is a little bit dark because there are so many variables that affect the results. You will have these companies that promise you the moon, and unfortunately not all of them can actually deliver that. It is one of those things that you have to have your expectations, you have to have expectations but expect that these companies are probably over promising. Ideally, you can bring it in-house, because then you have more control and potentially you can use that individual's expertise for other things as well. Definitely when you are outsourcing it, it' is tough because, again, so many variables out there. Google could change something in their algorithm and the current strategies you are doing, all that work is kind of, well, it hasn't gone to waste, but it is not as effective. So it is hit and miss.

Flavio:Basically, what you are saying is that there is no guarantees when it comes to SEO, when somebody says, "I am going to put you on page one."

Phillip: Yeah. There is no guarantee. If they are promising that to you, it is probably a good idea to move on to somebody else.

Rochelle: I would also like to echo what Phillip said. It is a long-term strategy. Part of it is really understanding that SEO is not an overnight or a 30 day thing. It is a long-term advertising strategy. You have some short-term strategies and tactics, and you have long-term tactics. I would say SEO is a long-term tactic. Just keep that in mind when you are doing that.

Flavio: That is great to know definitely, and I think we all agree with that. Most people just talk about SEO because, I guess, that is what everybody talks about. They say Google and that's the only thing they know. They think that it is going to be actually a short-term, because they are thinking that, if I can put my website on the front page of Google, I am going to become a multi-billionaire. I would like to talk a little bit about the short-term strategies. What have you done that has actually helped you in the short term to really ramp up while all the other things, like organic SEO, are happening slowly in the background?

Rochelle: Well, I would say pay per click definitely has been a really good short-term strategy where you try to, you pay for ads that show up on Google. That ensures that you are on page one provided you are paying enough. That is a good way to make sure that your messaging is correct and that you really understand who your audience is. I would recommend anyone really look at pay per click on Google, because that can ensure that you get on that first page. Now, you're on the side bar, so obviously it is not the same traffic as organic results. But it will give you a feel as to, you know, what people are searching for and whether you are meeting their needs at least very quickly.

Flavio: Great. Definitely, as I mentioned, I want to talk a little bit more about pay per click because that's, I think, an area that most people don't really have too much experience in and they are a little bit afraid because, when you talk about pay per click, the average person is thinking, "So what? Every time I click on the computer I have to pay?" They don't realize exactly what pay per click is and that there is huge potential.

Announcer: You're listening to "The New Reality."

GOOGLE ADWORDS

Phillip: Well, when it comes to pay per click or paid search, that is one of Mogo's number one lead generators. I think something that is really important to keep in mind is you can't just set up some ads and just let them start running. You have to, especially at the beginning, you have to be logging into that Google AdWords account or actually Bing, too, has been effective for us, and continually optimize. Not only optimizing your bids, but you also have to be optimizing the copy. Constantly testing one ad against the other, seeing which one gets you better conversions or whatever that conversion is on your site, whether it is to fill out a web form, sign up for an email, you definitely want to be tracking that. I think it is also important to keep in mind that you can pause paid search. You never have to worry that it is going to get out of control. That is the one beauty of online advertising. It is highly scalable. You can turn it on, you can turn it off. It allows you to really, if for some reason you have too much business coming in, you just turn it off, take care of things, and turn it back on when you are ready.

Flavio: Let me ask you a question on that. because right now you threw a whole bunch of big words out there that I'm sure our listeners are scratching their heads going, "Conversion what? AdWords what?" So, how does the average person or small business or company that has never actually experienced pay per click, that don't even know what pay per click is, how do they do it? What can you tell them on how to get started with this?

Phillip: Well, I think one thing I would do is I would go to Google and I would actually Google "Google AdWords." Google AdWords is probably the, well, it's the biggest paid search provider out there. They have a lot of great resources that you can read. They'll take you step by step on what you can do to set up your first ad that will show up on Google search. There are a lot of resources out there, but that is where I would start. Go to Google directly and learn what it is all about.

Rochelle: I would also like to add that we talk about pay per click, and we often focus on the big search engines like Bing, which is Microsoft's search engine, or Google. But I think that what some people in small businesses don't know is you can also do pay per click on Facebook as well as LinkedIn. If you have a professional audience or if you are trying to reach certain people on Facebook, for example, if on Facebook Sue is trying to reach mothers with children, you can actually put that demographic in and where it says, "I'm married and I have kids," or "I live in this region, " you can actually create ads that are very, very targeted. What it comes down to is you set the criteria of who sees those ads, and you only pay when someone else clicks on it. It doesn't matter if a thousand people view it. If only one person clicks on the ad, you only pay one time. I think that is important to understand what pay per click means.

There are a lot of other services beyond just search engines where people can do these same kinds of ads. You can set daily budgets. You can set monthly budgets. That works really well to make sure that your spending doesn't go out of hand, as Phillip said. I think it is important to understand that you can do it in a variety of these new communities, and it is not just the search engines.

Sue: That's a really interesting point. It think that is also interesting how depending on the stage or the budget of your company will depend on the avenues that you chose. We've tried pay per click and, you know, when we're selling a $20 toy to pay $1 or $2 to find that lead that may or may not convert, it gets very expensive very quickly. We have taken advantage of Facebook advertising. It is very targeted. In fact, during Christmas time period, for example, we would advertise across Canada. But as our shipping deadlines got closer and closer to the cutoffs, we would then start advertising more locally so we were spending our ad dollars closer to home and where we are shipping from. It made no sense to advertise in New Brunswick when we wouldn't be able to get the packages there in time for Christmas. So you can be very strategic about it. You can test out the market on various different ads and strategies and see what works and what doesn't fairly cost effectively.

Flavio: Now, let me ask you a question, Sue, because you mentioned at the beginning of the show that you're a mom. Being a mom, it's a full-time job in itself. Now you are also running the show, your own company, Raspberry Kids. I can imagine how much time you dedicate to this. How did you learn to do all this? Or are you actually engaging a company to help you and consult with you? How have you done all this?

BLOGGING, FACEBOOK, TWITTER

Sue: Well, I think I am pretty social by nature, so social media really speaks to me. I also really love the opportunities that it presents to connect with people. There is a terminology that some people use called "raccoon moms." There was an article that was written about a year ago about how after 11:00 p.m. moms come out of the woodwork and they all go online and start communicating with one another because that is when they can reclaim their own life. I am often up working quite late after the kids are in bed. That tends to be when I get it done. I enjoy what I do, and I love the social nature of it.

The other real opportunity I find is that you can also take online offline and make some really great connections, whether it is strategic business partnerships, you're offered networking opportunities, and I have made a lot of friendships as well as a result of meeting people online and then getting to meet them in person as well.

Flavio: Great. Well, on that note, obviously, as you mentioned, being so social I guess that would also involve doing a lot of writing and I'm assuming blogging and those kinds of things. So, switching gears a little bit and going away from the paid advertisement that I am sure we could probably just talk about that for an entire show, I'd like to have a little bit of your experience when it comes to content and how much content should a company be creating today, what type of content, what blogging is all about, and so on.

Rochelle: I think that blogging is a great tool to get information about your industry, maybe about development of the company and new products. I also think that what I am seeing a lot more of is companies creating content for Twitter specifically. So, really bite-sized pieces of content that can easily be shared. That is something that you want to think about. Is this something that other people find intriguing that they will share with their friends? Viral is the big word. It is great to have your blog, but if no one passes it along, it doesn't really help. Think about what are those nuggets that people might find interesting, funny, or informational that they would want to pass around to their friends who are just like them.

Sue: And I think for my purpose at Raspberry Kids, I initially felt as though I had a lot of pressure to always produce content. One of the things I have learned is to re-urpose that content a little bit, whether it be taking an excerpt from a blog post and utilizing it in either the Twitter or Facebook form, so that I am not consistently having to reinvent the wheel and also coming back to a previous comment I made about how I am communicating with different people in different audiences or in different spaces. Sometimes people will see it multiple times, but often they are only seeing it once. Because of the nature of Facebook and Twitter, if you are not necessarily watching it or seeking out people's comments, it is a stream that just keeps moving. If I've posted it at eight o'clock this morning you may not have seen it. But if I post it later tonight on Twitter, than maybe you do.

So, it is about re-purposing content, but above all else one of the things that has been most important to us is just knowing our audience. I have mentioned that, because I am a mom and the business I run is children's products, I definitely integrate snippets from our life because it speaks to our brand and what our brand is a part of as opposed to blogging for a business where it may be more professional and I am obviously not going to talk about some silly thing that my kid said or did today.

Flavio: And, Phillip, can you tell us a little bit about how content has actually helped your company?

Phillip: Well, for us, we're publishing original content every day on our blog. We consider our blog the basecamp of our social media strategies. All of our content is housed on our blog. We use Facebook, Twitter, and other social media channels to get the content out there. We are re-purposing it across all those social media channels. We're also re-purposing it in our email communication to our customers. We know that not everyone is on Facebook even though a lot of people are. So we take the best content from that week and we'll send it off to our customers. We're, as everyone has mentioned, we're re-purposing it as well. We make sure that our content speaks to our audience. Again, we're not talking about borrowing money. We built an online savings community, so giving people real value and a reason to come back to read our content on a daily or a weekly basis.

Announcer: You're listening to "The New Reality." is a web design and website development located in Vancouver, BC. The company offers a number of professional services for b2b clients that include search engine optimization, ppc advertising, analytics, social media and lead generation.

Flavio: Welcome back. You're listening to "The New Reality." We have only a few minutes left. We actually would like to wrap up by having our three guests give some final thoughts in regards to their perspective and ideas in regards to Internet advertising. So perhaps, Phillip, you can start by giving us your final thoughts.

Phillip: Sure. I'll just quickly say that I think it is important to kind of experience it all. You don't need to do paid search on a huge scale. Just try it out, see how it goes. But make sure you try all these different things that we have talked about -- paid search, social media, SEO. Just try it all, even on a small scale. See where you see the biggest traction and then that can become your priority.

If there is one tip I can mention for anybody out there who is starting to do social media, that would be make sure you on Monday morning, when you get into work, go to HootSuite.com. That is probably the best social media management platform out there. It is free. It will allow you to see what people are saying about your brand in a very easy to use dashboard. It is something that I use daily, and I actually cannot imagine not having it. HootSuite.com is the one tool I would recommend that everyone try out and see what you find.

Flavio:Wonderful. Thank you very much, Phillip. Sue, any final thoughts?

Sue: To sort of reiterate, I think dabbling in the different forms of social media is a wise idea. But you also, depending on your budget and your resources, need to establish quite quickly where you are getting the most bang for your buck or the most bang for the amount of time that you invest. I think you need to listen, engage, and just know where your audience is and how they want to be communicated with. There is no sense in spending time, money, effort, or energy on something that has a really low return. You learn that pretty quickly, and that is where I would concentrate your efforts.

Flavio:Wonderful. Thank you very much. Rochelle, any final thoughts from you?

Rochelle: Yeah. Sort of to echo Sue's point, I would say the listening part is probably more important than the speaking part in any of these tools. I would recommend that if you are going to get on Twitter and you are overwhelmed trying to figure out who you should follow, there is a great resource called Listorious.com where you can find experts in a variety of areas. That is a good place to start to find people who you might want to follow and listen to who can give you some insight into the areas, who is talking about the things that are important to your audience.

Flavio: Wonderful. Thank you very much. I want to take this time to thank all of our guests that came to the radio show. We're going to be posting the show on our website. If any of you have missed parts of the show and you want to download it again, you will be able to download it from our website. You can also download it from our iTunes page on iTunes.com.

I want to thank our guests, Sue Sinclair from Raspberry Kids. You can get more information on Raspberry Kids and Sue by visiting the website at RaspberryKids.com. Also, I want to thank Rochelle Grayson from BookRiff.com. You can visit their website as well at BookRiff.com and learn more about their company. And Phillip Postrehovsky from Mogo Money. You can get more information by going to MogoMoney.com. We will talk to you next week.